Patience Jones: Hello and welcome to As Built, the podcast from Graphicmachine about architecture firms, buildings, and how both get built. I'm your co-host Patience Jones. With me is...
Brian Jones: Brian Jones.
Patience Jones: Your other co-host.
Brian Jones: Kinda jumped in there a little quick.
Patience Jones: You did. You're very excited. You're very excited about today's topic.
Brian Jones: Yeah.
Patience Jones: Because it is the architect persona and how that impacts the profession.
Brian Jones: We don't have the dramatic music to go along with it.
Patience Jones: We don't. I feel like something like akin to Eyes Wide Shut, that type of music would be really-
Brian Jones: Ear-piercing. [laughs]
Patience Jones: ... perfect right now. So talk about the architect persona. Because I can talk about it from the “never having been an architect” person-side of things.
Brian Jones: I mean, I think the architect “persona” is a little bit conflated with the architect stereotype.
Patience Jones: Yes.
Brian Jones: I think that persona is a positive spin on what, aspirationally, are good attributes about that. And maybe the stereotype kind of gets down to a caricature of what the profession is or, or people in the profession are.
Patience Jones: I think that's right. I mean, we should just start out acknowledging there are stereotypes about the architecture profession. And some of those are internal to the industry, so all the architects would laugh about saying X, Y, Z. Some of them are external to the profession, and sometimes the internal ones leak out a little bit. And these stereotypes can be useful in running your firm and developing new business. They can also be harmful. There is some truth to some of them and no truth to some of them.
Brian Jones: I would also say there's a generational component to this too, that some of them are not as true as they were, and a new generation of architects coming up. There are new ways in which the profession is changing. I think this stereotype/persona is evolving.
Patience Jones: So let's start with, what is the sort of stereotypical archetype of the architect?
Brian Jones: All black, tote bag.
Patience Jones: Wearing all black.
Brian Jones: Yes.
Patience Jones: The stereotype is also incredibly white.
Brian Jones: Yeah.
Patience Jones: Usually male.
Brian Jones: Yes. I think that it's particular choices about what they wear on their person and carry with them, and everything is particular and looks designed and is meant to be noticed and commented on.
Patience Jones: I'm listening to this and I'm like, "Those are all inert things." Those things are neither good nor bad. The problem is when those things are portrayed or communicated about as shortcomings and signs that somebody is fussy, difficult to work with, obstinate.
Brian Jones: Doesn't want to earn a living. [laughs]
Patience Jones: Comes from money and doesn't really need any more. Has no capacity to relate to other people and no interest in relating to people. “Inability to alter laws of time and space is really just an architect being difficult.” You know, if you wanted to move that load bearing column, you would. And definitely in other industries, the perception is that architects feel themselves to be superior to everyone else.
Brian Jones: That tracks as far as the stereotype for sure, and I think that where I would say is the challenge now for people who are in the profession looking to make their mark and people who are outside the profession trying to connect with architects, is to look beyond that top layer and look at the fundamentals of what I think is still true within the profession: a deep care for the built environment. I'm not using the word “passion” because I think it gets overused, but I think there's a deep desire to improve the built environment and to connect people and make people's lives better. That has become even more true as time has gone on despite the outward toppings and dressings that people might have chosen to wear and to have.
Patience Jones: You know, I think about all the different things like, fussy or difficult to work with, and the flip side of that coin is, okay, fussy, well, actually what that is is very attentive to detail and very demanding. And when you're talking about places where people live and work and teach and provide healthcare and experience life milestones, yeah, I hope somebody's being really fussy about that.
Brian Jones: And [structures that] remain on the earth for probably longer than a person's life, you know? It's not a decision that gets made lightly, and the responsibility for what goes into it is not insignificant.
Patience Jones: There’s, "Oh, architects think they're better than everyone else." I think what most people outside of the industry don't appreciate is the amount of education and training that architects have to have, not just in their undergrad and graduate programs, but to get licensed, to maintain their licenses, to continue being competitive. And I would not fault any architect, when faced with someone who hasn't gone through any of this training, who has zero understanding of any of the subject matter, when they say, "Well, can't you just..." Yeah. You probably do feel like you're better than that person because in that particular way and instance in time, you actually are. So-it's not giving up those things. It's not saying, "Okay, to counter the perception that I'm difficult to work with, I'm just going to cave to all client demands no matter what they are." It's being aware that this is an external perception of the profession and taking that into account when meeting new clients, pitching new business, talking about yourself, talking about your firm, talking about your work.
Brian Jones: I think that's really important and I think bringing it home to the tangible aspect of how you grow your firm, these may be people's preconceptions about you. So knowing that that's a possibility, does it change anything about the way you might present your materials and the way that you might talk when you're speaking to people to make sure that people feel that you're approachable and that you're knowledgeable, but not that they really can connect with you on a human level? I would say when you're trying to connect with people in the profession, not to assume that this is the stereotype that everyone lives by. And I think that sometimes it becomes a funny ha-ha joke shorthand of, oh, this is obviously what everybody will love, but it goes both ways. You need to really treat people as the individuals that they are and kind of see what that person has to offer.
Patience Jones: And the perceptions about being difficult or fussy, that can be used to your advantage in growing your practice. Explaining, okay, I've worked on X many projects, or I'm obsessed with these details because these details are what will contribute to a better experience in this building, keep the building standing.
Brian Jones: Or, this is how we're going to meet your budget. I think any opportunity to treat your skills and your approach as an asset to the client, that's the way to go always, for sure.
Patience Jones: The unfortunate truth is that if clients feel that they can't talk to you about something, they can't raise a concern... Some clients are just completely unfettered and will have questions for you all the time, no matter what it's about, and don't really want to take your answer as an answer. But other clients, if they are intimidated by you, will not ask you the question. Instead, they will go to the contractor. They will go to a sub. They will go to somebody else on the project team. And you'll start to get these workarounds, and that never results in a good product. So if you can work in a little bit of approachability more than you would normally, even if normally you're an incredibly approachable person, just be aware that somebody, especially somebody who's never worked with an architect before, may be coming to the table with these preconceptions, and just make a little bit more effort to be approachable, to have a sense of humor. That doesn't mean giving up your expertise or your recommendations.
Brian Jones: So what do you think the big takeaways are here?
Patience Jones: Don't stop being all the things that make an architect great, but understand that other people may find those things intimidating or off-putting because they don't understand them. Explaining all the education that you got, all the training that you got, all the people that you worked under, projects you've worked on, remembering to be human.
Brian Jones: And just a side note, that shouldn't be a monologue at the beginning of a conversation. [laughs]
Patience Jones: That really defeats the purpose. And [put things] in terms that non-architects can understand too.
Brian Jones: Meet people where they are.
Patience Jones: Your first introduction should never include the word “panopticon.” Just don't do it.
